INTP Discussion Forum > Flamethrower > ESFJ PARENT


Posted by: paladinoflunaria Jul 18 2004, 03:51 AM
My mom is an ESFJ dry.gif . Division56, you "survived an SJ parent," but was it an ESFJ? ESFJs suck! They have no logical reasoning skills whatsoever (at least she doesn't). I could go on and on but I'll leave it at this: my mom told me to quit talking to people I don't know over the internet. She told me this when she saw me on the forum and threatened to disconnect the cable modem. I asked her to give me a logical reason why, but she wasn't able to present anything of value. She really can't do anything about it, but it still makes me mad that people are that frightened of other people. I told her that people shouldn't fear other people and that fearing people seperates humanity and leads to wars, tension, etc. She just said that there are some "weird," "psycho" people on the internet and when I told her that this is a forum for intellectuals and INTPs, she said, "Most serial killers are gifted people."

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Posted by: int Jul 18 2004, 06:37 AM
QUOTE (paladinoflunaria @ Jul 17 2004, 09:51 PM)
My mom is an ESFJ  ... I asked her to give me a logical reason why, ... She just said that there are some "weird," "psycho" people on the internet ... "Most serial killers are gifted people."

You don't have to buy it, but it makes sense to me.


Ask her how you can protect yourself. You might gain some trust if you go with her and work with each other, instead of getting on the defensives. Of course, she'll have to have the same attitude, so it might not work. mellow.gif



<edit> I'd never thought I'd ever admit to the "gifted people, serial killers" argument.

Damn.

But I'll stick with it what I said, as there's no sense fearing each other. </edit>

Posted by: Vagabond Jul 18 2004, 11:00 AM
Paladinoflunaria, I did survive an ESFJ mother wink.gif Her reactions to the internet "human relations" were just like your mom's (a world full of criminals and I am the idiot that is too trustful for my own good and all you guys might be maniacs after my life and she will throw the pc out the window etc etc).

You don't ask for a logical reason from the ESFJ. They will even tell you that *you* have no logic if you cannot see their valid points. They will drive you up the walls. What I did, was explain to her that I am under a nickname, no address or phone number is given, so no one can track me down without my will. I also had my share of meeting semi-dangerous jerks that looked alright in my real life, so I explained to her that it is easier to avoid a virtual jerk (you just stop talking, they are far away and it is impossible to find them standing on your doorstep uninvited someday) than it is to avoid a real life person, who can track you down way easier.

Now you explained to her that people should not fear other people. Bad move, in my opinion. If your mom is anything like mine, she just thought that you are too naive and pure for this world and so she must watch over you more carefully. Also, I must say that, even though I am an INTP, I don't think you should be totally receptive to absolutely everything people say. Not that you should fear them, but being a bit cautious never hurt wink.gif So. Be cautious. And most of all, let your mother know you are being cautious. She is not entirely wrong, the world is full of creeps and over the internet deceiving is a hell of a lot easy; she is just overreacting with fear. Good intentioned.

Don't ask her for logical arguments, go the opposite way and give her yourown logical arguments. With a touch of SJ energy, if possible. Good luck.

***End of rambling***

Posted by: CosmicDust Jul 18 2004, 02:37 PM
phew...I'm glad my xSFJ mom isn't THAT bad...but hey, she can't be without being a hypocrite because she met my current stepdad over the internet!

I suspect she's an Enneagram 9, which probably helps reduce some of the classical SJ traits (which are commonly associated with phobic 6, 1 for STJ's especially, and 2 for SFJ's especially). She does worry unnecessarily sometimes, though. She wants me out of Boston the week of the Democratic National Convention because she's afraid it might be bombed by terrorists. Heck, we hardly have any Republicans in Massachusetts, except for my real dad, who's only a sort-of Republican (officially independent) and would not be the kind to incite protests and riots.

I don't think my mom minds too much, as long as I don't give away too much personal identifying information, especially to people I don't trust with it. I'm grown and outside the house, so she can't control me. She does, however, insist I e-mail her every few days to let her know I'm alive, and after I get back to Boston following a trip home so she knows I got back.

Posted by: Chaos Symphony Jul 18 2004, 08:40 PM
*laughs* This particular topic really strikes a chord with me...

Hello, everyone. I've been lurking around this board for a really long time now, but never got around to posting before. Guess I have to start sometime.

Is there something about the ESFJ type that makes them naturally paranoid? My mother's the only one I can go by at this point, and she behaves exactly as Paladin and Vagabond describe. In fact she displays a general seeming-paranoia when it comes to other people and their opinions and motives. She constantly tries to tell me that there are all sorts of dangerous people out to get me on the internet and that I shouldn't trust anything anyone says there... rolleyes.gif

QUOTE
You don't ask for a logical reason from the ESFJ. They will even tell you that *you* have no logic if you cannot see their valid points. They will drive you up the walls.


laugh.gif How true! That was utterly maddening to experience. In the end I had to settle for just pretending to acknowledge whatever she said and dropping the subject as quickly as possible.

I'm not completely gullible. I grew up with a cynic for a father (ISTJ) and a paranoiac for a mother. I'm not just going to trust any given person blindly, and I'm very reserved with information that I deem "unsafe". It just really annoys the heck out of me to have all the same old warnings repeated again and again, despite my insistence that I've already covered those possibilities and that they're irrelevant to what I do here.

Hmm... thinking about it now, what if it's the impersonal aspect of the internet that scares them? My mother seems so strangely credulous when it comes to things told to her by people she can actually see, whether it's friends and relatives or even people on TV. I'm far more inclined to distrust those people because they can actually gain personal advantage and cause damage through deception. But to her, it's the horde of nameless, faceless people out there on the 'net that are always bad and untrustworthy... unsure.gif

Posted by: Jkrs Jul 18 2004, 10:25 PM
QUOTE (Chaos Symphony @ Jul 18 2004, 08:40 PM)
...it's the horde of nameless, faceless people out there on the 'net that are always bad and untrustworthy...  unsure.gif

That sounds familiar indeed. My grandmother is most likely an ESFJ, and my father an ESTJ. For some reason, they seem to find the faceless masses a neverending threat. I mean, yeah, it's generally good to be careful when walking around at night/in the rain/etc. but there's a fine line between 'careful' and 'paranoid', and I'm not entirely sure if they understand where it is.

At least my father will respond to a well-reasoned argument, most of the time. If it's against some group he's chosen to affiliate himself with, though..

Posted by: flan2dave Jul 19 2004, 12:43 AM
My parents have no opinion on the internet, they're too old. rolleyes.gif

Around me my mom is essentially an ESFJ, always talking about her feelings on things even though it has been repeated a million times. Overly protective as well, but I do wonder how much of it is personality type versus instinctive motherhood. My cat might type me as an ESFJ if he could.

Posted by: Division56 Jul 19 2004, 01:58 AM
QUOTE
Is there something about the ESFJ type that makes them naturally paranoid? My mother's the only one I can go by at this point, and she behaves exactly as Paladin and Vagabond describe. In fact she displays a general seeming-paranoia when it comes to other people and their opinions and motives.



Ack! ISFJs are just as bad. My mother has problems with paranoia. She's always checking the rear-view mirrors to see if people are following her. Stuff like that.

Whenever we moved into a new neighborhood, the neighbors were officially declared untrustable until further information was gathered.

Posted by: CosmicDust Jul 19 2004, 02:12 AM
Hmm. My mother never really mingled with the neighbors. Social-laster, I think. She gets her live interactions with multiple non-related people at work, and talks about them a lot when she's home. You know, classic "he says, she says" stories and rants about her boss and what-not.

Posted by: paladinoflunaria Jul 19 2004, 03:24 AM
I'm happy for all of you who have made it through an SJ (especially xSFJ) parent. One more year to go for me. Neither of my parents are cynics, but my mom is paranoid. I am a cynic anyway, but I still see know reason to fear other people. If someone has set their mind to killing me and there's nothing I can do about it, then there's no reason to fight them.

My enneagram results reflect this attitude. I'm a 5w4, but my second highest after 5 SP is 9 SX.

Posted by: Vagabond Jul 19 2004, 03:26 AM
QUOTE (paladinoflunaria @ Jul 19 2004, 06:24 AM)
My enneagram results reflect this attitude. I'm a 5w4, but my second highest after 5 SP is 9 SX.

Ha... welcome to the club of the doomed... me too. wink.gif

Posted by: Slider Jul 19 2004, 05:13 AM
yeah, mom is ESFJ (and sister) and dad is ESTJ. it sucks. I get along best with my ESTP brother.

Posted by: Division56 Jul 19 2004, 07:54 AM
QUOTE
If someone has set their mind to killing me and there's nothing I can do about it, then there's no reason to fight them.



That's scary. It's actually my personal philosophy on the matter. Maybe it's extreme apathy induced by paranoid SJs?

Posted by: Chaos Symphony Jul 19 2004, 09:14 PM
QUOTE (Division56 @ Jul 19 2004, 03:54 AM)
QUOTE
If someone has set their mind to killing me and there's nothing I can do about it, then there's no reason to fight them.

That's scary. It's actually my personal philosophy on the matter. Maybe it's extreme apathy induced by paranoid SJs?


Seems like it. I can corroborate, as I've thought the very same thing more than once. blink.gif How odd...

Posted by: Jkrs Jul 19 2004, 09:47 PM
QUOTE (Chaos Symphony @ Jul 19 2004, 09:14 PM)
QUOTE (Division56 @ Jul 19 2004, 03:54 AM)
QUOTE
If someone has set their mind to killing me and there's nothing I can do about it, then there's no reason to fight them.

That's scary. It's actually my personal philosophy on the matter. Maybe it's extreme apathy induced by paranoid SJs?

Seems like it. I can corroborate, as I've thought the very same thing more than once. blink.gif How odd...

Likewise. I've never voiced that opinion though, as fatalism tends not to go over well. If I want an explosion, I'll get myself some nitrogen fertiliser and a book of matches.

Posted by: paladinoflunaria Jul 20 2004, 05:06 AM

Read up on Stoicism.