INTP Discussion Forum > Flamethrower > Is Religion good for society?

Posted by: 144DeZonia Jul 5 2004, 03:19 PM

Is Religion good for society?

Is Religion profitable and a virtue or is it unprofitable and a vise?

It’s in my perspective that it’s virtue for most weak-minded people to believe in a high power much like the law, God is that high power.
It protects them from there Id, and hurt of others i.e. crime.
Although weak minded people are generally dumb, therefore some make the correlation to Christians being dumb, or illogical. But Christianity is wise; the bible uses great Rhetoric to prevent people from harming each other.
It’s likewise profitable for the same reasons.

Please lets talk about the profitability and virtues Christianity.
or the vises and unprofitability of Christians.

lets look at Christianity, is it profitable and a virtue for society? yea or nay?

In my mind Christianity is beautiful , and most Christians are not ? What's you say? yea or nay ?

Not all that claim to be Christians are Christians. Is this true? yea or nay?

Christianity is to protecting the weak with joy, not persecuting Job.

Christianity is to give to the needy , charity with joy , not silly superstitions.

Christianity is to Pride in service , not condemning.

Christianity is Loving everyone like your Brother , and For a Brother, to go to depths of Hell to help him.

Christianity is picking up your Brother when he falls down, not kick him when he's down.

Christianity is the humility of Love and grace from forgiveness.

Christianity is to die for motherland.

And with all meekness love.

Posted by: Division56 Jul 5 2004, 04:45 PM

For something that's supposed to help people, a lot of them sure get screwed up by it. Kind of like the US's drug laws.

Posted by: CosmicDust Jul 5 2004, 05:29 PM

Religion's up side is that it can bring people together - the tribal ritual, the sense of belonging. The spiritual aspects have their own advantages - getting people outside their daily-grind perspectives, easing existential angst.

Unfortunately, where you have a tribe, there's the risk of tribalism - bringing your group together at the expense of excluding others and giving license to commit crimes against them. Also, people in power are infamous for using the Authority of God to further their own self-serving (well, self and others close to them) agendas. IMO, religion wouldn't be so bad as a whole if the tribalism and power-maintenance aspects didn't come to dominate so many sects.

Posted by: 144DeZonia Jul 5 2004, 07:00 PM

First Division56
For something that's supposed to help people, a lot of them sure get screwed up by it.

I Completely agree with you,
That there Leaders of said Religion are Corrupt Fully.
They Completely take advantage of there weak reasoning skills likewise there fear of God abasing them falsely, not with the Love of Christ.
They twist there common good nature in to superstitions and persecutions
I am holy against such swine.

Men choosing rather popularity over Christ.
What is popular to the weak mined, fallacy of course.
They prefer the violent ness of God.
The condiment of men over the virtue of freewill.
They are controlling and forcefully.
These men are beast and that is why God Treats them so. Have you read.

I will have mercy on who I will have mercy on.

If these beasts were to not have faith , they would double in there monstrosity.
Weak minded people can live without the thought of suicide in a land without liberty.
Error go, there concept of a cruel hateful God they submit too, wherefore they can not freely live in virtue. But only in bondage, may they have virtue.

Without God they are truly horror of a people.
This one thing is true, they can’t have integrity, and only by fear do they follow the law.

I prosecute not them, but the wise.
We do not speak enough!
We do not lead them!
We let the greater fool lead them.
And what do we do , We Complain about it.

Posted by: 144DeZonia Jul 5 2004, 08:01 PM

CosmicDust
yep.
The old Bandwagon Approach.
But hay, you don’t even need logic here.
It Written in the bible to follow the law of the Land.
Are Hate crimes illegal or not, because if they are illegal you not behaving as Christian.

Fortunately there are good men too.
like Voltaire,
Kings trembled at his very words. He altered the perception of religion for the good.

He pictures Christ among the sages, weeping over the crimes that been committed in his name.
Near his Death he said “I die adoring God, loving my friends, not hating my enemies , and detesting superstition”

When He died , his remains were recalled to go the Pantheon 100,000 people walked with him , while 600,000 flanked the streets.
On the funeral car were the words: “He gave the human mind a great impetus; he prepared us for freedom”

He even effected our forefathers with his Philosophy.

Posted by: Lovechild Jul 5 2004, 08:24 PM

QUOTE (Division56 @ Jul 5 2004, 04:45 PM)

For something that's supposed to help people, a lot of them sure get screwed up by it. Kind of like the US's drug laws.

Amen my fellow atheist.

Posted by: flan2dave Jul 5 2004, 08:52 PM

For all the proposed positives religion has to offer, while certainly valid in many cases, I could imagine them being supplanted seamlessly by a more concise set of values that do not appeal to the supernatural. There is also the option of treating fantasy tales seriously while acknowledging the fact it is indeed fictitious. I think it can be observed in cultures where religion is less prominent, other aspects of the culture subsume the functions that more prevasive religions have to offer.

Posted by: 144DeZonia Jul 5 2004, 10:00 PM

flan2dave Sir ,
Look at the Facts were Christens are Wealth is.
There is a correlation between GNP and Christens, take look on the web for your self the statistics don’t lie.

Yes, Good Values Virtues are mutual supernatural and natural. A Good law is a Good law.
The Natural Law is the Law of the Land.
But were there is differences, in the supernatural Law and natural Law there is Strife,
I Hate Strife, and want peace.
I believe supernatural Law and natural Law should be the same,
But then the religious nuts would pervert it.
So I am very angry that you’re right.
I do not what you to be right, but unfortunately you are.

The government is a horror to me much like the religious nuts.

I detest a many things in religion, but government also.

Let us also talk about governmentally errors,
Which parts are good and witch parts are bad?
Is government profitable and a virtue or is it unprofitable and a vise? Which parts?

P.S.
I am grieved by my strong faith in Christ.
I am a atheist by heart, but I can not logical deign my faith anymore as I daily try and fail.
There are many concepts of God that trouble me greatly, causing much strife in my heart.
Please share your concepts of God that trouble you, that it may be a comfort to me.

Posted by: Iyalmej Jul 6 2004, 12:27 AM

My take on religion:

I was "supposed" to be Catholic (back when I lived in Mexico, I am Mexican by the way), but I never saw much sense about it, people were just faking to be saints when they were at mass and came back to beat on their wives.

I think it's a very good way to control people, much like the government, but in most cases, voluntary. Commercialized religion makes me sick, which is why I stay away from it all. But, the initial reason why I don't have a religion is because I don't fully believe in each and every principal most religions preach about. And yes, I researched as many religions as I could.

So, if I can't believe in it with my soul, mind, heart, and body, then why get involved? I respect people who are able to do that, because I can't.

So instead I basically live by my own morals, trying to do things as best as I can, failing in the way, etc. Perhaps that is what religion is to other people, I just don't want to bind myself to any rules, when I don't believe or agree with them.

Posted by: Vagabond Jul 6 2004, 12:52 AM

"If God did not exist it would be necessary for us to invent Him."

Voltaire

One of my favourites.

Posted by: grokkfried Jul 6 2004, 03:03 AM

I feel like I can have a field day with this one. Wanna hear one of my favourite hobbies? It's going to churches and debating religion. It's yeehaw fun. Let's see..

QUOTE

Christianity is to die for motherland.

<-- Explain

QUOTE

That there Leaders of said Religion are Corrupt Fully.

<-- I'm not understanding you on this one.

QUOTE

<-- Buddhism?

QUOTE

Yes, Good Values Virtues are mutual supernatural and natural. A Good law is a Good law.
The Natural Law is the Law of the Land.

<-- Who exactly makes "Good" values, "Good" laws, and "Natural" laws?

I also noticed in topic of religion, Christianity has been the only religion instituted. What about Bahai? Krsha Consciousness? Druidism? Why aren't we talking about Yggdrasil and Siddhartha? Where is Mecca?

Posted by: antireconciler Jul 10 2004, 10:09 PM

QUOTE (Vagabond @ Jul 6 2004, 12:52 AM)

"If God did not exist it would be necessary for us to invent Him."

Voltaire

One of my favourites.

That is very pessimistic. Being a favorite of yours, I guess I'd like you to elaborate. Why would this be necessary?

God, to me, is something you call out to for help when you are afraid or are hurt. For integration purposes with belief in the afterlife, God is usually supernatural. You can impose the power of God within yourself, as well as any other human or entity you love. Anything you love can be God when you are hurt and need to be loved. Why is drawing on this power necessary? When I catch myself trying to manefest God in some entity, I see that it is not necessary because the fear that allows for God's existance is not necessary. If God is necessary to humanity, than humans are necessarily forever afraid.

Posted by: Vagabond Jul 11 2004, 12:30 AM

Well, humans are afraid; they are afraid of death, of non-existence - of the unknown. (Of course I don't mean 'everyone', just speaking in general). Mostly humans are afraid of theimselves and need to have someone else to blame for their misfortunes (God, fate, devil - whatever). They are also afraid that they are incompetent to understand what goes on around them; that is why the more primitive societies worshiped as divine actions the natural phenomena - they didn't know where they were coming from, so they had to be acts of god. I think that god has been invented quite a lot of times throughout the human evolution anyway.
In society terms, inventing god would be necessary in order to keep the masses from revolting against authority. Emperors 'in the name of god' had their way and, since it was perceived as god's will, they had their way a lot more easily.
Not saying I like all that. I don't. All I am saying is why in my opinion god would be (is) inevitably invented anyway.
As far as I am concerned, god is not a power to be remembered when you need to ask for something or when you need to be loved, neither a source of fear or of authority - that is a different topic though. If I perceived god as an authority, I would probably ignore him.

Ah, and I meant Voltaire is one of my favourites, not this particular saying

Posted by: antireconciler Jul 13 2004, 06:42 AM

QUOTE (Vagabond @ Jul 11 2004, 12:30 AM)

All I am saying is why in my opinion god would be (is) inevitably invented anyway.

Yeah, okay. It's very human. You have a point. The reason for fear is strange to me, though. It both helps and hurts people. Humanity is fascinating. It's strange how children, left to thier own devices, are naturally athiests. What happens to them?

Posted by: misspadfoot Jul 15 2004, 04:13 AM

QUOTE (antireconciler @ Jul 13 2004, 06:42 AM)

It's strange how children, left to thier own devices, are naturally athiests. What happens to them?

They get Taught things and are hardly ever the same again. I'm just glad my parents were never dogmatic. My dad wasn't as lucky. His family was once very fundamentalist, though it was only for a while. As for Dad himself, he's an INTP (maybe; I'm not quite sure) who's very well-versed in both biology and physics. Yet somehow, he's not an atheist. I can't say I know why not. Most INTPs seem to end up atheists eventually.

Posted by: antireconciler Jul 15 2004, 06:29 AM

QUOTE (misspadfoot @ Jul 15 2004, 04:13 AM)

My dad wasn't as lucky. His family was once very fundamentalist, though it was only for a while. As for Dad himself, he's an INTP (maybe; I'm not quite sure) who's very well-versed in both biology and physics. Yet somehow, he's not an atheist. I can't say I know why not. Most INTPs seem to end up atheists eventually.

Oddly, my dad used to be very athiestic. I remember as a child picking up a children's bible out of complete ignorance and he told me not to read it. I think about that memory when I consider my dad because I can never figure him out. You see, a few years ago, he completely switched directions and is now quite Christian, as is my step-mom. If athiesm is the better of the two routes for everyone, my siblings have no chance of escaping. He was INT-something (I think) and is now something else entirely. What could cause something like that? Only since last year, when my general group of friends changed do I now have athiest friends. My old friends (reletively inaccessable now) were the cream of the intellectual crop and they were all thiestic. One of my cousins, who is astonishingly brilliant, is also thiestic. Then, my best friend, who is reletivly lacking in ability to overcome fear and is quick to accept the word of those in positions of authority is happily athiestic.

What on earth are the ingredients of an athiest?