INTP Discussion Forum > People and Psychology > Further ponderings

Posted by: entovert May 2 2004, 01:30 PM

Posted by: INTrPosr May 2 2004, 03:47 PM

If one were bugging an ENTP for a committed relationship, would that be stirring up her immature Si? Would the ENTP consider this a restriction on how she seizes future social/intellectual/romantic opportunities? Seems consistent with their widely observed short-as-hell attention spans, I think. Or perhaps the capering Ne tells her she'll teeewtally miss out on what could possibly be because the other individual looking for solidarity is introverted? Ergo, the ENTP assumes the INTP's private life is not enticing or attractive or even apparent, for that matter.

I think that the latter theory would hold true for ENTPs, although I don't think that being INTP has anything to do with it. This is a description from www.geocities.com/lifexplore, regarding ENTP in relationships:

For the ENTP, falling in love occurs when they feel that there is a good fit with the other person. Often within the first meeting, ENTPs will know whether the relationship has any real potential. ENTPs may find it difficult to commit to anyone until the right person comes along. During this period, ENTPs explore the closeness until they can be certain that they have looked at all of the possibilities. Because of this, they are not likely to settle down early. When they do become involved in a relationship, they generally want to maintain as much independence and freedom as their loved one can tolerate. Their mates may need to have high self-esteem and to be independent themselves in order to accept the ENTP need for freedom and novelty.

For ENTPs, falling out of love, which may not always occur, results when their vision of the relationship does not square with reality. Sometimes they will select someone who offers stability and comfort and ENTPs later will become bored with the stability. When scorned, ENTPs use their powerful and broadreaching analysis to explain the reasons why the relationship was not good in the first place; additionally, they may become competitive with their former partner and work hard to win. ENTPs do not like to lose at anything they undertake.

Can anyone name potential conflicts arising between an ENTP-INTP commitment? I should think either types' function orders play instrumental roles here, given that both share the same E/I preferences: Ti, Ne, Si, Fe; Ne, Ti, Fe, Si.

There is a book by Paul and Barbara Tieger called, "Just Your Type" or "Just My Type". I am too fond of the book because the Tiegers apply dichotomies, instead of using type functions. I am also not crazy about Socionics, because of their theory that the type functions are reversed for introverts. However, this is what they would say about ENTP/INTJ(which is what an INTP would be based on their theory):

Mirror partners have similar interests and ideas, but a slightly different understanding of the same problems. Each partner can see only half of one problem. Therefore the partners always find what the other partner is thinking interesting. Usually partners quickly realise that they are very like-minded.

The area of confidence of one partner is always the area of creativity for the other partner. What one partner considers solid and final appears incomplete and changeable for the other partner. This difference may often puzzle the partners especially when they fulfil their mutual plans. It seems for them as if the other partner simply misunderstood the main concept. Therefore partners attempt to correct each other's understanding but usually fail, because each partner acts from their confident side. For the same reason, Mirror partners can be involved in really hot disputes and can even come to blows in the name of their opinion.

However, Mirror partners are often very good friends. When they work together on the same project, their mutual correction and adjustment becomes a constructive criticism that is usually accepted as useful. The main discomfort in these relations is caused by the difference in Judgement and Perception between the partners. Mirror partners generally agree about setting near future goals, but disagree about global aims. Mirror relations usually lack warm atmosphere between partners. This situation normally changes in presence of a third person who is Dual to one partner and an Activity partner to the other.

Hope this helps a bit..... and sorry for the long post.

Jack

Posted by: entovert May 25 2004, 11:00 AM

"Goodnight, my little incubus."

This really hurt. Good-humoured, but offensive nonetheless.

See, in a nutshell: ENTP wants me off her back so she can persue a casual relationship with some ESTJ jock. Thing is, she's still attracted to me. Sexually and intellectually. Friday last, we had sex. She had effectively "cheated" on jock.

Unethical? Yes. Bewildering that she's determined not to indulge her INTP vice despite her natural, multi-faceted affection for me? Even more so. ENTP is utterly vigilant about keeping commitments she makes to others. She is prepared even to repress her own ideas about love and deny her very nature to keep these commitments. Can you imagine a sixteen-year-old girl behaving like this?

I suppose in doing this, I'm trying to pinpoint her impetus. It doesn't lie in ladder-climbing and nor is it a matter of self-esteem. Reputation may have some bearing. I know it's important to her.

ENTP puts a lot of value on fate. She believes love is something that becomes of no human intervention. This presents a problem, as I see love as several hundred metric tonnes of sandstone and mortar, hundreds of foremen, slaves and an architect. I want to commence building with ENTP, and her reticence annoys me. She explains this behaviour away with "it would end in heartbreak for both of us".

There's something she's not telling me, which irritates me, given that I've been absolutely honest and open with her about our relationship.

Thoughts?

Posted by: shaytana May 25 2004, 07:03 PM

Thoughts, well, first off I am not going to try to analyze a 16 year old girl, imo that's just impossible

I guess what the situation sounds like to me is that she is not in love with you, and feels that the chances of her falling in love with you are slim, and she just doesn't want to say it.

Of course, I could be totally wrong.

Posted by: Kickass_Ninja May 26 2004, 06:27 AM

The problem is, that she has a romantic view of love. (She is a girl.) Of course, your Shadow Fe precludes the possibility that love can't be controlled, and your NT processing matrix tells you that you should be able to create love, as how else could so many people find it. She obviously digs you, as she fucked you recently, but her own personality matrix tells her that your relationship isn't real, but don't all relationships end in some form of heartbreak? Either that or long-term committment, so that excuse is bogus.

Are you completely sure of her personality type? Some of her actions seem to be Feeling based, supported by an impulsive iNtuition. (The aforementioned contact between you is evidence of this)

Of course I doubt this explanation is any good, because I don't know you and there is an amazing amount of variation even between two people of the same personality type.

Posted by: entovert May 29 2004, 12:48 AM

Thanks for your help, Ninja. Thing is, I think we're both looking at ENTP's behaviour from T-based rational perspectives. I agree, the excuse is bogus, but I've always tried to think of relationships yielding to a certain logic of their own.

I'm quite certain she's ENTP. A-grade school debater, seizes any verbal sparring opportunity presented, obsessed with optimising, averse to live-in-the-moment experiences, fickle attention span (Core Ne wants to go everywhere and see everything before daybreak).

I tend to think of NTPs as Importers and Exporters: whereas Importers' objective Aux Ne sustains and supplements the focused Ti conceptual freedom, inductive reasoning, etc, Exporters' Aux Ti creates and ruminates for Effector Ne to impress ideas on the world. Essentially, an issue of functional subservience.

I'm Paul James' classic INTP: messy, self-assured, highly J with private hobbies, conscientious detachment from thoughts/emotions, Shostakovich gives me Si-highs.

Educated guesses on ENTP are welcome. ENFP's certainly feasible.